|
| Info |
Message |
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
29 Feb 2008 19:42 |
In a quality magazine - Solo Moto - the news is that Triumph is working on up to 5 new models. The first 3 for 2009 will be:
- 1050 Daytona based on the 675 design
- 675 Tiger
- 1700 touring cruiser
So, the wait is over at last.
|
 |
DCMC
Gelderland,
Netherlands
Posts: 2,783
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
29 Feb 2008 19:58 |
[edited]:
nooooooooooooooo!!
What's going to happen to the "when will Triumph listen to us" threads???
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
29 Feb 2008 20:05 |
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
29 Feb 2008 20:31 |
If Triumph are working on a big Daytona, I doubt anyone outside R&D knows about it.
The 1700 is widely known, the Tiger Cub a strong possibility.
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
29 Feb 2008 21:09 |
I can understand you X-Man, what on Earth are you going to whine about if it's true 
|
|
J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom
Posts: 7,168
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
01 Mar 2008 09:23 |
I doubt anyone outside R&D knows about it.:
|
News Flash Rob - I doubt anyone inside Triumph R&D know about it either !!
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
01 Mar 2008 09:43 |
 
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
01 Mar 2008 09:49 |
It wouldn't at all surprise me if it were true, as I have always said Triumph don't NEED to build one but if they can base it on the the 675 they will have another winner.
|
|
 ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
01 Mar 2008 10:43 |
LOLOL, what does it take !!!!!!
There is no F in Daytona  
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
01 Mar 2008 10:54 |
[edited]:
There's no F in Trophy, either.
But it sound like there could be.
|
|
Reg
Sao Paulo,
Brazil
Posts: 868
Enthusiast
01 Mar 2008 21:44 |
They'v e made a big mistake, 1050cc isnt big enough.
We want a REAL big Daytona, not just a 1050.
The campaign goes on... Hurrah !!
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
01 Mar 2008 22:14 |
Lets face it whatever they do t595 wont be happy
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
01 Mar 2008 23:24 |
especially if they do nothing 
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
02 Mar 2008 00:04 |
If they bought out 10 new models they would be the wrong models, too many models, not enough models, wrong colour, headlights too bright.
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
02 Mar 2008 00:06 |
Unless one was the 1050 Daytona
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
02 Mar 2008 00:08 |
You don't really believe that do you ?
|
|
Ian Stubbs
Leicester,
United Kingdom
Posts: 490
Daytona T595 (97-98)
02 Mar 2008 00:27 |
Well I hope they hurry up if they really are doing it, cus' I happend to be at a Suzuki dealer today, and I have to say that the 180bhp B-King looks much better in person than it does in photos!
|
|
Tonto
Nr Scropton,
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,678
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (99-01)
02 Mar 2008 06:58 |
1050 Daytona Lucifer Orange
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
02 Mar 2008 11:19 |
Pink Tiger.
|
|
Barney
South West,
United Kingdom
Posts: 3,512
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
02 Mar 2008 11:30 |
My dealer told me much the same as the first post it's what they were lead to believe at the dealer meetings.
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
02 Mar 2008 21:17 |
Quote:
headlights too bright |
Now I know you're taking the p*ss
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
02 Mar 2008 21:18 |
Taking the piss, I'm shocked. 
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
03 Mar 2008 00:24 |
I was told directly from someone who works at the factory. Obviously I can't reveal his or her name and I'm lucky to have this contact as he's the only Spanish guy working there and I know him from Barcelona.
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
03 Mar 2008 00:33 |
So you can't reveal HIS or HER name but he is the only Spanish guy working there.
|
|
J-Zeus
London,
United Kingdom
Posts: 7,168
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
03 Mar 2008 08:33 |
he is the only Spanish guy working there:
|
....called Pedro
|
|
Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France
Posts: 3,835
Enthusiast
03 Mar 2008 10:01 |
Now he's gonna be hard to find.... LMAO !
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
03 Mar 2008 10:22 |
And I thought he read it in Solo Moto... which magazine actually exists, unlike Pedro...
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
03 Mar 2008 11:18 |
tilting at windmills must be in the blood ......
|
|
Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France
Posts: 3,835
Enthusiast
03 Mar 2008 13:18 |
I'll believe it when I see it on MCN.... so there.... 
|
|
Toxteth O'Grady, USA
Washington DC,
USA
Posts: 3,403
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
03 Mar 2008 15:45 |
could you wedge a 1050 engine in a 675 size? the Japanese have pretty much done it with their liter bikes.
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
03 Mar 2008 15:56 |
If the 1050 is as small as the 675 (girl's bike; had me peering down into the screen to see the dials...) it's a big (no; not a small one...) mistake...
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
03 Mar 2008 23:49 |
OOOPS!! Please don't tell anyone  
|
|
Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 1,737
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
04 Mar 2008 02:54 |
Just stick a feckin supercharger on the ol 955 and be done with it!!
That'll scare the 1098/Busa pwners.........................
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
04 Mar 2008 03:53 |
Yeah they would be scared alright, scared of bits of engine hitting their nice new bikes.
|
|
Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 1,737
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
04 Mar 2008 07:13 |
Nah............look at your Aussie mate Wayne's turboe'd bike, and some bloke over here has been doing triples too, saying they are the ideal config for a Turbo...........and I always thought they was less feckin around with Superchargers..........it's a "gentler" all rpm effect!!!
|
|
Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
05 Mar 2008 16:50 |
Read on the yank site that there are supposed to be "9 new or updated " models for 2009.
As long as there is a new Trophy i'll not care a fig if the other 8 are bonnie derivatives..
So there..nyah nyah...
|
|
DaytoMan
The Heartland,
USA
Posts: 932
Daytona 955i (99-01)
07 Mar 2008 17:18 |
HA HA! I doubt it will be 1050cc....They probably said 1050 as a generalized decsription for a "Big Daytona" Kind of like all soda is a "Coke".
BUT..if it is 1050ccs then it will be based in the new 675 motor architecture and technology...then it will still be pretty awesome.
I still think when its all said and done it will be 1100 to 1200ccs.
Regardless..I will have one.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
07 Mar 2008 17:54 |
err, os not the 675 technology just an update of the triple in general. I don't remember seeing any 'new' technology blurb anywhere? I may be wrong in this; anyone care to enlighten me?
|
|
DaytoMan
The Heartland,
USA
Posts: 932
Daytona 955i (99-01)
07 Mar 2008 20:53 |
[edited]:
The 675 engine was an all new engine....regardless of it being a triple, it was a new casting method, new internals, and basically based off of Jap I-4s architecture and with a stacked gearbox it was up to date...does that make sense?
The current 1050 triple is basicially a massaged, bored out and slightly updated version of the original 955 engine from 1997. Its VERY outdated.
They will use the new architecture for the new big Daytona motor.
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
07 Mar 2008 21:35 |
Yes I agree it will in all likelyhood be an 1150,a 1050 would give them little if any advantage over a 1000cc four. IF they base the new engine on the cracking 675 they can't go far wrong.
|
|
Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
07 Mar 2008 22:33 |
Hmm..that tallies in with some reports that, due to emissions and noise, that the 1050 has been developed as far as poss.
Brand new 1200 triple in a new sports flagship, then filtered down to the rest of the range in various states of tune?
|
|
DaytoMan
The Heartland,
USA
Posts: 932
Daytona 955i (99-01)
07 Mar 2008 22:53 |
Thats what will happen. The new big triple will trickle down into the rest of the big bore Sports line in differnt states of tune (S3, Sprint, etc). They've already done very well by doing that with the 675 motor.
Yes, the OLD 1050 mill has run its course.....it was great but its about time.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 11:32 |
so its a copy of a jap engine.....
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 11:37 |
It uses current technology as seen in Japanese bikes which is different to simply copying it.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 11:43 |
so its not copying when we do it but it is if the japs copy anything we do?
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 12:18 |
Oh FFS give it a rest, surely by now you must have pissed off the last few supporters you have on this forum ?
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 12:47 |
so who's getting personal now then....
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
08 Mar 2008 16:24 |
All in jest and in the best possible taste of course...
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 18:37 |
Technology moves on and spreads out no matter what the industry as everyone looks at their competitors products and tries to replicate and improve it
The Japanese got it into production first and then Triumph did it year or so later.
I bet the Japanese got the TT600 to see where Triumph went wrong with the FI and made it better.
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
08 Mar 2008 18:46 |
always much easier to start with a non-blank piece of paper ....
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 19:00 |
I'm sure Ducati's 1098R traction control will appear in a modified form on the next generation of Japanese litre bikes
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 19:04 |
but thats not copying?
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 19:10 |
All the manufacturers will be working on similar ideas and technologies and one of them will get to the market first.
Suzuki had a very crude version on their GSXR 1000 a couple of years ago (A, B and C power settings )
Ducati have taken it to the next level and made race traction control a 'reasonably' cost effective item.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 19:27 |
but you specifically said that Blizzard:
I bet the Japanese got the TT600 to see where Triumph went wrong with the FI and made it better |
which implies they reverse engineered the Triumph setup to work on an <unspecified> motorcycle they produce. Now that is somewhat different to having something in development which is what you now say is what happened? Now forgive me but which one is it?
BTW Ducati (it just so happens)were the first manufacturer to fund an electronics company (Magnetti Marelli) to develop a traction control that really worked, somewhat before Suuki.
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 19:59 |
It's not about copying or reverse engineering but taking the competitors products, seeing where it is lacking, and applying that knowledge to their own development. This might mean that you can adjust your design appropriately of you might discover that all they have done means nothing to your current development.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 20:17 |
unbelievable; you don't seriously believe that do you? really? Now i know you are trying to justify the fact that you think I am winding you up on purpose.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 21:23 |
Anyway if Triumph can come up with say an 1100 (ish) nice compact engine in a suitably upsized 675 chassis they will have to be onto a winner given the undoubted success of the 675 in both it's guises. Exciting times for fans.
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
08 Mar 2008 21:34 |
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
08 Mar 2008 21:47 |
FFS All I was trying to do was explain a bit more clearly.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
08 Mar 2008 21:50 |
On another forum I am on we have a 'banging your head against a brick wall' emoticon, I fear it could be over used if available to us here.
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
08 Mar 2008 21:51 |
|
|
Cantbearsed
wolverhampton,
United Kingdom
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
09 Mar 2008 07:24 |
Didn't a British bike firm come up with Desmodromic valve actuation yonks before Taglioni stuck it in a Ducati?
|
|
Graham
Southampton,
United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
09 Mar 2008 13:09 |
Btitish bike with Desmo system
I thought it was Norton (they did have a desmo system) but a quick Goggle credits Arnott in 1910! Is anything new?
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
09 Mar 2008 13:13 |
No, not even the arguments on here
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
09 Mar 2008 18:56 |
Arguments ?
Discussions, please
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
09 Mar 2008 20:53 |
Btitish tit...
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
09 Mar 2008 23:36 |
I've just put a deposit down on the new litre Daytona which the dealer expects for spring 2009. So, I'll be the first to get one. That's the good news. The bad news, is that my Spanish mate at the Triumph factory has just been sacked
Still, at least we know for sure that Triumph reads this section, so not all bad news after all
|
|
Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France
Posts: 3,835
Enthusiast
10 Mar 2008 08:48 |
Oh noooo ! Pedrooooo !!!
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
10 Mar 2008 09:15 |
Pedro's back from his siesta then......?
|
|
Reg
Sao Paulo,
Brazil
Posts: 868
Enthusiast
10 Mar 2008 19:56 |
" The bad news, is that my Spanish mate at the Triumph factory has just been sacked "
You mean Triumph are going bust ??
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
11 Mar 2008 09:50 |
"so its a copy of a jap engine....."
the word for copy and the word for learn are the same in japanese
the japs completely destroyed our motorcycle industry [along with some help from the management, short sighted unions and some dozy old school tie types]..
by applying sound marketing ...[ie find out what the market wants and then build it ,exactly what triumph, god bless em ,are doing now ] its no good buliding good products if no one wants em.We [the british ]have been down that road before and lost All our car and bike companies bar a few notable exceptions mostly due to mismanagment and outdated thinking ..
Jaguar being a case in point..
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
11 Mar 2008 09:56 |
Absolutely right, ANY engine that is a known configuration is an obvious 'copy' of something else to some degree. Having said that Triumph have broken the mould and gone their own way and are being very successful with it to the extent that MV are building a 675 triple so that will be a copy of the Triumph engine.
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
11 Mar 2008 09:59 |
Petrol engines are now so well developed, that something totally original is unlikely.
Might be one benefit of the the environmental/diminishing resources culture tho.
Some really lateral thinking and new ideas.
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
11 Mar 2008 13:41 |
ive always wanted a british bike but being a teenager during the late 70's i was appalled by the build quality and outdated concepts of british and american bikes ,
italian and german machines were way too expensive soo....
my only recourse was to buy the best the japs could provide at the time ..
i sold my RD400 and bought a 650 a classic capacity made popular by the uk ..but this one had 4cylinders and to die for looks plus the prefix ...Z
this was my first 4 stroke bike..and i loved it ..until some theivin scumbag nicked it
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
11 Mar 2008 20:08 |
[edited]:
Same sentiments I had. 70's Brit iron - pile of cr*p, tho it was a 400-4 I sold for my Z650 C3.
Metallic blue with alloy wheels, till some clown clipped the back end and it cartwheeled down the road, punching the brake lever thro the crankcase
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
12 Mar 2008 10:42 |
The Japs copied the British bikes.... the Brits copied the Jap bikes.... The difference today is the British (triumph) have not the cash to set up huge lines to bring their R&D to fruition anyone can build a four pot motor copied from a jap model and stick their own badge on it but Triumph have chosen the Triple route and that in itself brings a whole set of technical limitations but offers a degree of uniqueness and individuality of its own.... if Triumph do well racing a triple they should be applauded, as there are few manufacturers at the mo producing one... If they bring out a new road going triple with increased capacity and power with fuelling and handling to match, then why not wait and see what the bike is like before dismissing it out of hand.... Hmmmmm?
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
12 Mar 2008 11:21 |
too tue mate if anything we brits are innovative and that is our best quality next to determination i applaud Bloom for all hes done ..
and im proud of the badge on the tank , and the fact the bike stands up well against its competition,i didnt buy it just cause its british
i test rode all of the competition including the italian factory fighters and in real world riding conditions this is the best by far
i wait with bated breath for the next bikes to come out of hinkley because it really seems that their marketing people know what their on about... sorry to reiterate that point
in other words you ll get what you want ..look at the 08 S3 peolpe said it needed italian bling ..so its got eyetie wheels and brakes[ btw also found on the new bimota ]
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 11:57 |
BL, I understand that the triple motor was based on a Kawasaki design with a cylinder stripped off to 'make it unique' . How does that count as 'innovation' ? Just wondering like. Same can be said of the 675 motor if Blizz is to be believed....
|
|
jimmyj
South Wales,
United Kingdom
Posts: 3,829
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
12 Mar 2008 12:00 |
Nothing new in this world then... 
|
|
Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France
Posts: 3,835
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 12:49 |
Having worked on R1 engines before, the 675 engine is VERY similar in design, especially the gearbox moved up behind the cylinder bank, the head looks like a 600 CBRR head, with its common cam cap. (the early 955 had multiple caps to retain the camshafts)
I don't really care if Triumph copied Yam, or others, the 675 engine is fantastic from a design/casting stand point, the only thing beside the use of titanium for rods or valves which would have made it better, is to design a cassette type gearbox, it is the only thing I would have liked to see with this engine, making it even more racing-able
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
12 Mar 2008 13:16 |
BL, I understand that the triple motor was based on a Kawasaki design with a cylinder stripped off to 'make it unique' . How does that count as 'innovation' ? Just wondering like. Same can be said of the 675 motor if Blizz is to be believed....
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 13:17 |
Erick, I really don't care either, what gets me is the number of people that sugggest that it's Triumphs own design when it patently is a copy(s) or amalgamation thereof. Ok things may have been tweaked (or not as in your cassette gearbox comment) and yes they have done the casting design etc. but then so does every manufacturer (unless you chinese maybe). I just want a bit of reality (like that which your comment brings).
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
12 Mar 2008 13:33 |
Beat me to the post.......
X-man, where do you think the japs got their designs from .....? they copied the brits in the 60s and brought out the CB750 they did it better and cheaper which in turn destroyd the british bike industry.... you must remember how it went yer older than me..... tis called reverse engineering they do it we do it and it happens in every walk of life.... see summat improve it make it better.... no-one has a monopoly on engine design...
does it matter that triumphs are based on summat the japs made.....? no it doesn't...! they are bringing out a replacement for the daytona, fair play to them lets see how it goes first before you codemn it to the bin eh? unless you know summat we don't in which case I'm all ears
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 15:22 |
Yup, but then the japs went on to develop those ideas and concepts far beyond what we had. Howeevr I see that thr Triumph spectales have come out so i shall say no more. I have not condemmed it to the bin (perhaps you can point out where I said anything to that effect) quite the opposite, I like you await the revelation.
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
12 Mar 2008 16:42 |
TBH if I get the piss wiv Triumph I'll be off fer a KTM I have no particular loyalty to any manufacturer..... (Perhaps you can point out where I have) I got rid of my 595 cos it didn't work for me any more, I bought the TBS cos.... oh why the hell am I justifying my choice to you...???? there are NO rose tinted specs here X-man, it could just as easily been any other maker... Just cos folk are looking forwards to the new bike, why are you being such a nay-sayer??? please tell me, cos I see nowhere that I have done or said anything to piss you off.... I have just pointed out what the japs and the brits do on aregular basis and I get accused of having triumph specs on.....!
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 16:58 |
1: where do you get the idea you have done anything to piss me off?
2: The tinted specs come from the same place as you accusing me as being a nay sayer (I still wait to see where I have been ).
3: Why are people taking this attitude to a bit of critisim? I manage to criticise Ducati and nobody gives a jot; criticise Triumph and they all jump on the bandwagon.
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
12 Mar 2008 17:48 |
[edited]:
X-man:
Same can be said of the 675 motor if Blizz is to be believed.... |
you don't do irony then
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
12 Mar 2008 18:59 |
Can he iron my shirts then?
This all so tiresome.
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
12 Mar 2008 20:23 |
BL's turn now!!!
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
12 Mar 2008 20:47 |
It is VERY OBVIOUS to anyone that an inline design is going to be based on what is efficient and what works at the time, should Triumph have wasted time trying to design a motor that didn't take it's design cues from any existing motor ? Of course not. There is the little matter of it being a triple though. If it makes sense to stack the gearbox behind the cylinders to reduce the length of the motor then of course they will do that, don't all the Japs basically do that ?
ALL manufacturers look at others products and take the best features and incorporate into their own designs, they always have and always will. The 675 is an incredibly successful bike, we SHOULD just be happy with that.
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
12 Mar 2008 22:15 |
Stop using the h-word
|
|
Skippy
Dunfermline,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,778
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
13 Mar 2008 07:34 |
You don't design a motor to be trendy. There are certain designs that work and others that don't. Of course the engine is going to be similar to others. Rod length, bore/stroke ratios, port size and shape, exhaust diameter/length etc. are decided on what works the best not on a whim.
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
13 Mar 2008 09:47 |
i just like em ................voted with my money
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
13 Mar 2008 09:51 |
Skippy, again it all seems very obvious really. If it works you use it regardless of who else has or does use it.
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
13 Mar 2008 10:00 |
Spondon:
we SHOULD just be happy with that. |
some aren't.....!!!!
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
13 Mar 2008 10:06 |
patent and copyright issues to one side - the practice of reverse engineering is common in most industries; not just particularly to 'copy', but more often to learn from and improve reliability, availability and serviceability aspects - meaning an interpretation for one's own technology / architecture .....
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
13 Mar 2008 10:11 |
S'wat I said
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
13 Mar 2008 10:19 |
don't matter how many words you dress it up in its still copying....
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
13 Mar 2008 10:20 |
- must be a long way back !
Good moaning !
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
13 Mar 2008 10:21 |
but not blatantly !
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
13 Mar 2008 10:57 |
Like they copied us.....!
Moaning ST.....!
|
|
~Bluelabel~
The Shades, Ongar,
United Kingdom
Posts: 31,217
Premier Member
Thunderbird Sport (98-00)
13 Mar 2008 11:00 |
ST:
must be a long way back ! Good moaning !
|
Losing the will to live:
X-man, where do you think the japs got their designs from .....? they copied the brits in the 60s and brought out the CB750 they did it better and cheaper which in turn destroyd the british bike industry.... you must remember how it went yer older than me..... tis called reverse engineering they do it we do it and it happens in every walk of life.... see summat improve it make it better.... no-one has a monopoly on engine design...
does it matter that triumphs are based on summat the japs made.....? no it doesn't...! they are bringing out a replacement for the daytona, fair play to them lets see how it goes first before you codemn it to the bin eh? unless you know summat we don't in which case I'm all ears |
There you go old bean
|
|
Wobs
Derby,
United Kingdom
Posts: 53
Daytona 675 (06->)
13 Mar 2008 12:34 |
Check out bore/stroke ratios on all the Japanese 600 fours. Yamaha were the first of the Japanese to put a stcaked gearbox arrangement in as far as I am aware - I believe they all do it now. Who's copying? Everybody is.
Mind you, somewhere in the depths of motorcycle history, in and around all the weird and wonderful confgurations that have been tried in the last 100 years or so, I bet there's a stacked gearbox somewhere. Otherwise I suspect Yamaha would have patented it.
By the way, any back-up to the statement that the first Triumph engines were just Kawaski engines with a cylinder missing?
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
13 Mar 2008 13:18 |
Just my point to someone who said Triumph didn't copy...I read the comment onKawasaki on here...
|
|
Tony Rokins
Reading, Berkshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 111
Daytona 955i (02)
13 Mar 2008 13:46 |
You're all boring me now.....who the feck cares?
Triumph are producing some cracking bikes right now. Thats whats important.
If there is a new 1000cc plus Daytona on the way, I for one am looking forward to it. I'll be in the market for a replacment to the Daytona soon and was considering an RSV Millie, but now I'll wait.
If Triumph have lifted some good ideas from the competition to make thier new sports bike better, so be it. All the other manufacturers do.
TR
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
13 Mar 2008 21:13 |
Well said that man.
|
|
Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 1,737
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
13 Mar 2008 23:54 |
Triumph allegedly bought the GPZ9, stripped, it, analysed it, refined it, then copied it...minus one cylinder..........
Can you blame them??, the Geep was a phenomenally powerful bike ( for it's time) also bloody well nigh on indestructible.......
Obviously, after so many cock ups in the past.......they couldn't afford to drop the ball again........and anyway, look where it got them...........plus as has been said, the japs copied the Brits ( to some extent) when they began in the early 60's/70's............
They just had higher manufacturing capabilities/ tolerances............
|
|
John Nelson
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 572
Tiger (01-06)
14 Mar 2008 01:21 |
"Triumph allegedly bought the GPZ9, stripped, it, analysed it, refined it, then copied it...minus one cylinder.........."
Bullshit!!!
Triumph bought bikes from ALL the big players and examined all of them.
I'd have been horified if they'd done anything else.
Triumph range of engines are all their own designs. Informed by an intemate knowledge of what the others are producing - but their own designs none the less.
The best that you can do by COPYING what others allready have in production is to be a generation behind. While you are working on your copy the originators will be working on their replacement.
You have to bring something of your own to the party and Triumph did that.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
14 Mar 2008 02:57 |
Agreed, I would have been equally disappointed if they hadn't bought at least one of each from the competitors to get some sort of benchmark to aim at. There is no way the 675 engine for example is a copy of anything, it's an inline triple which quite obviously must bear a superficial resemblance to an inline 4.
|
|
Erick
MV Agusta in Paris..,
France
Posts: 3,835
Enthusiast
14 Mar 2008 08:28 |
I think there are 2 differents views mixed up.
a) Parts copy: you get an original part, make a mould out of it, and produce your own. In this light I do not believe Triumph ever copied (in the engine department anyway)
b) Technology copy: You extract a good mechanical concept from the opposition, and use it.
Have Triumph done it ? YES (stacked gearbox, exup, head, oil breather now like the Jap's) Are they the only one? NO, they all do it.
Triumph even innovated in some areas, like mould casting, fuel injection on the 600 class, the way the cranks are produced etc...
just my 2p....
(X-man, not against ya at all, just discussing... )
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
14 Mar 2008 21:39 |
Don't forget that Triumph obviously copied someone with the concept of two wheels too.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
14 Mar 2008 23:11 |
Yeah how predictable was that, it showed a complete lack of imagination and innovation.
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 09:46 |
And as for having handlebars in front of the seat? Tchoh!
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
15 Mar 2008 10:04 |
[edited]:
Could be on to something here, guys.
Throw convention out of the window :
Couple of extra wheels, change the bars for a steering wheel, add some proper weather protection, which might even give a bit of crash protection.
Could even add some more seats, so's you could carry all the family about.
Now that would be different
Now what should we call it ?
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 10:08 |
Mmm, what about a cra ?
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
15 Mar 2008 10:09 |
you missed the 'p'
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 10:25 |
Oh sorry, the carp, do you reckon it will catch on ?
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
15 Mar 2008 10:27 |
crucial ....
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 10:37 |
Nah, sounds stupid.
I'm sure they'll be copying someone else.
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
15 Mar 2008 10:39 |
mirroring .....
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 11:03 |
'morning to you, sir.
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
15 Mar 2008 11:23 |
Bongiorno !
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 11:38 |
Com 'sta
Rumour has it that there is DEFINATELY a Tiger adventure, 675 Tiger Cub and an FJR stlyed ST tourer.
|
|
Rob BBTB
Birmingham,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,339
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
15 Mar 2008 13:23 |
Comsta
sounds like a copy of an old Honda wheel to me
|
|
ST2
M3 / J3,
United Kingdom
Posts: 11,541
Premier Member
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
15 Mar 2008 13:24 |
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
15 Mar 2008 14:15 |
..its a bit like sayin good year ,pirrelli.bridgestone, etc etc
copied good old johnny dunlop by makin their tyres round with a hole in the middle..lol
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 17:40 |
You mean someone other than Triumph have already had that idea??
Bugger.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 17:44 |
anybody else hear that squeaky noise.....
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 17:54 |
My turn...............................over to you Spondofatbadasswhatever.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 21:03 |
Honda actually invented the wheel and the engine and trees.
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 21:28 |
do you really like being used like this; surely there must be somebody who really likes you not just wanting to use you.....?
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 21:31 |
Are these bikes actually CONFIRMED or is it more of a confirmed rumour ? I don't mean confirmed by the factory as that obviously wont happen but maybe more than just a rumour ?
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 21:59 |
Definately confirmed as a rumour.
(I told you it was your turn now)
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 22:02 |
I have broad shoulders, I can handle it.
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 22:03 |
Slopey shoulders here.
|
|
SpondonGob
Brisbane,
Australia
Posts: 778
Enthusiast
15 Mar 2008 22:09 |
Does that mean you can't wear lederhausen ?
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
15 Mar 2008 23:11 |
Achtung, baby!
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
16 Mar 2008 02:00 |
ich habbe lederhosen in mien schranke ....so there
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
16 Mar 2008 06:49 |
I had one of those, but the wheel fell off.
|
|
jockney rebel
nsw,
Australia
Posts: 107
Speed Triple (05->)
16 Mar 2008 14:17 |
..MOT ran out on mine ....Das schieze auto.
|
|
Al Reeves
Adelaide,
Australia
Posts: 1,019
Enthusiast
19 Mar 2008 08:09 |
no confirmation of anything other than a rumour then....
and a little ongoing antagonism from certain parties.....
|
|
SoCal
Leesville, LA,
USA
Posts: 167
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
20 Mar 2008 04:47 |
Just my 2p
They need to make a 1300 or 1350 Daytona now that would be something not that Triumph needs to compete with those Jap bikes......
But something that size would be a real exciting ride.....
|
|
William Ow
Santa Cruz, Ca,
USA
Posts: 153
Tiger (01-06)
20 Mar 2008 18:41 |
[edited]:
I don't think that is the case.
Think Factory Supersport...out of the crate.
My ideal would be a 900cc triple if it could have the same size, weight (sub 420lbs wet) and handling as the D675.
Upgrade a few key areas:
Brembo radial brakes & Master cylinder.
6" rear wheel,
Quality or Ohlins suspension (or a least forks ala new RSV's). Under bellypan exhaust like the new KTM RC8,
Power in the 135-140 range & 12K redline.
Keep under $12.9K I will be first in line. (and have been waiting)
Inline Image
Think similar to this but more compact triple motor and lighter over all.
or shoot for the 1098 and make an 1100cc triple, with same as above. But it will likely be heavier (don't bother Triumph, if over 440lbs wet.).
I like the lighter option.
William
Santa Cruz, Ca
2008 Street Triple 675 (down to 380lbs with a full tank)
2006 Daytona 675
2002 Tiger
2001 Bonnville
1999 Daytona 955i
1997 Daytona T595
1996 Super III
others......
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
23 Mar 2008 18:32 |
my Daytona is now up for sale and I've just put a deposit on the new Daytona so as to be first in line. The rumour here is that it'll be sold mainly in Spain and Italy as they are the only two serious sports bike markets in Europe, ie, lookat Moto GP, etc.
|
|
4->C.E.
the righteous city,
Netherlands
Posts: 842
Daytona 955i (02CE, 03)
23 Mar 2008 19:09 |
Ha ha ha.
Ha.
Very funny. Show us yer bank receipt. I can read French, so there's no getting away from it!
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
23 Mar 2008 19:56 |
How does reading French help you with understanding catalàn?
Sorry but it's a done deal !!
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
23 Mar 2008 20:41 |
Yep sportsbikes are really the top sellers in Spain and Italy
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
24 Mar 2008 10:06 |
50cc and 125cc ones especially.
|
|
Obi Wan
Angles of the East,
United Kingdom
Posts: 4,455
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
29 Mar 2008 16:20 |
FFS. I just pray to God that Triumph do bring out a 1200cc Dayto for no other reason than to keep all the petty arguers quiet. Oh but then it'll be inferior, a clone, too heavy, too slow, not enough power, for some ridiculous reason or some other wild fantasy etc. I swore I wouldn't read anymore threads such as this one but this takes the biscuit.
I feel better now - back to the broken record.......
|
|
Fret.
South.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 36,244
Premier Member
Tiger 1050 (07->)
29 Mar 2008 16:37 |
Sooooo, what are you trying to say?
|
|
Marcus Whittall
Yeovil Somerset,
United Kingdom
Posts: 79
Premier Member
Sprint ST (05->)
29 Mar 2008 20:17 |
oh dear!!!!!!!!
|
|
SoCal
Leesville, LA,
USA
Posts: 167
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
29 Mar 2008 22:32 |
So what if they tweak a 1050 make it pull 150-160 rwhp, that would put triumph in a real competetive class, and make them jap rockets cringe with fear I'd be first in line to buy one....
|
|
X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,379
Premier Member
Enthusiast
30 Mar 2008 11:02 |
never happen, it would be much too fragile. Maybe a bigger cc engine based on the 675 lump but they are always going to struggle with three pots against 4 (unless they decide to put the amount of cash Ducati has to into developing the engine; which I can't see) because of piston speed and bore/stroke constraints. the only way would be for a hugely oversuare engine ( to keep piston speeds down and then rv the tits off it to get them back up again. BUT it would lok a very different engine. It CAN be done (see F1 engines) but would call for a great deal of investment which triumph hasn't got being such a small niche company which is spread very thin due to the range of their models.
|
|
SpondonHAT
Boabekistan,
Australia
Posts: 3,390
Enthusiast
30 Mar 2008 11:54 |
SoCal, they could never get the required HP reliably from a 1050 triple but would have to start from scratch with a new engine based on the highly successful 675 which has proven to be competitive with the 4's. Make it 1150 and they would be onto another winner.
|
|
SoCal
Leesville, LA,
USA
Posts: 167
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
30 Mar 2008 17:21 |
The 675 is a very nice piece of work I must admit, but more power is always better, and 1150 4 would still be a good power combo, but as X-man has stated their budget is not like Ducati, who knows we may see something like this, in the near future? Keeping fingers crossed.
|
|
Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,142
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
30 Mar 2008 18:17 |
If they do make it it will be a triple not a 4
|
|
Señor Simón
Barcelona, Catalunya,
Spain
Posts: 1,718
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
30 Mar 2008 20:17 |
The dealer rolled out the new 1050 bike on Friday. I was surprised that they've changed the name from Daytona to Sprint ST 1050. It seems to be based on the BMW philosophy in that it's a supersport bike but you can add hard luggage to it.
Well done Triumph.
|
|
4->C.E.
the righ |
