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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
10 May 2008 17:22 |
About a month ago I noticed that my RS wasn't ticking over particularly well and would cut out every now and then. Previous owner had a race can fitted so thought I'd book it in to the local dealer to check the map, £20 later problem solved, re-mapped and no more cut outs.
Took the wife for a ride down to Southwold today, lovely and sunny, great fish and chips and no probs on the way down. However when I re-started the bike it's gone loopy! Couldn't make it's mind up what revs it wanted at tickover and when I pulled away it wanted to either cut out or race away from me, fuelling seemed all over the place. The problem wasn't quite so bad at speed but it nearly had us off a couple of times at low speed and took a lot of clutch balancing to get home.
The bike has been fine recently so don't understand why it's playing up all of a sudden. I'll get it booked in but as I'm a bit of a mechanical novice concerning bikes I thought I'd see if anyone had any ideas. All feedback greatly appreciated.
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Blizzard
Coventry,
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,749
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (04->)
10 May 2008 17:32 |
Throttle Position sensor or the crank sensor are good places to start
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
10 May 2008 19:03 |
Also don't rule out the ever possible........
water ( washing,rain etc) in either/both the petrol tank and plug wells.
The petrol tank breather holes MUST be kept clear, and the spark plug wells can hold water..causing misfiring/lumpy running, and the plugs to prematurely corrode!!!
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Fen Black
Cambridgeshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 58
Daytona 955i (04->)
10 May 2008 19:56 |
What does the temp guage read? If it is all over the place the sender is playing up, this then sends wrong info to ECU which overfuels to try to cool things down. My Daytona did this last year, & I have heard of a TT600 doing the same thing. just needs a new one & ECU resetting.
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
11 May 2008 01:46 |
Thanks for the replies folks, much appreciated. Think it's time to buy a Haynes manual so that I understand what you're talking about better!
Now that I think of it when I pulled over to see what was going on there was a small pool of water just inside the filler cap and one of the thin bleed type hoses that runs behind the engine toward the ground was dripping fluid if that makes any sense. Daft question but where are the tank breather holes located Frank?
The temp runs from around 175f on the go up to 208f when stationary and I think that's what it usually runs at. I had to top up the coolant this week but didn't overfill it at all. Started the bike again this evening in the vain hope that the problem would simply vanish but it's still there, the revs just jump up and down at tickover so I'll have to get it to the garage asap as off to Europe on it soon.....timing eh!!
Thanks again.
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Fen Black
Cambridgeshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 58
Daytona 955i (04->)
11 May 2008 09:05 |
If you have water in the rim of the fuel filler your drain holes are blocked. I often had to unblock them on my RS. take off RH side panel, & you will see the drain & breather pipes pull off the rubber pipes & unbung the metal fittings. I found the easiest way was with a drill bit turned with your fingers, the metal fittings fur up, it comes out quite easily.
Your pool of fluid after topping up fluid isn't uncommon, the top mark is set too high, mine always did this. Just keep level midway between marks & will be OK.
Glad to help.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
11 May 2008 10:53 |
http://www.t595.net/messa.....cked/67809.aspx
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
11 May 2008 11:44 |
I reckon this forum is the best thing since sliced bread!
Pulled the breather pipe off the metal fitting, the pipe was clear but the metal fitting was full of gunk. Got the drill bit up there a good 3 and half cm before it wouldn't go any further, don't know if I should be trying to drill it beyond that?
Started the bike up and the revs were stable at 2k and sounded 100 times better so decided to go for a run. Felt a bit jerky to begin with but gave it a bit of welly and it seemed to be pulling smoothly. Once it was warmed up it idled at just over 1k and runs so much better. Still feels a bit lumpy/lurchy when pootling around town in 2nd gear ( about 3.5k revs and just over 30mph ) so not sure if I need to clean the breather a bit more or could it be that I have water in the tank? I guess if I had water inside the filler rim then it could possibly be in the tank.
Thanks everyone as it's saved me a trip to the dealer and probably saved me a few quid too!!!
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,755
Premier Member
Enthusiast
11 May 2008 11:52 |
possibly needs a CO reset and Triumphs tunes are known to be a bit lumpy low down just where you don't want them to be.
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
11 May 2008 23:37 |
Yup,
sounds like (one) of your problems might just be water in the Tank.
Drain it , if you can, or run it really low..bung in a SMALL amount of Meths ( de natured alcohol), then fill with fresh petrol.
I WOULD drain the tank, then whilst it's off, check the plugs...................
Spray silicon/WD40 down the drain holes regularly...........................Flippin Triumph!!!!!!!
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Sog
east yorkshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
12 May 2008 16:44 |
Funny this but my 04 rs was doing the same yesterday,just when you dont need it on a 200 mile trip,but my engine management light came on,so I stopped for a pee etc at bowt 125 miles thinking the worst,fired her back up again ,light went out and it ran like a good un again for the rest of the journey,I cleaned it today and checked fluid levels etc and noticed the coolant tank was just below min ,topped it up and all seems well again,just wondered if that could make the light come on or not
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
12 May 2008 21:11 |
Couldn't tell you Sog, thought I'd sorted mine by cleaning the breather hose yesterday but it's playing up again today. Warmed it up on the drive prior to going to the gym and it was fine on the way there. Started spluttering again on the way home though so gonna have to follow the kind advice above and start with draining the tank. Time to get a Haynes book though as not sure what to do with the plumbing on the side.
X-Man, daft question maybe but could you tell me what a CO reset is please. Do you think it's worth contacting that guy in Bishop Stortford ( Kevin ) from one of the other threads re looking at the tuning etc. Guessing he'll be cheaper than Triumph and perhaps more knowledgable by the sounds of it.
Thanks once again evryone.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
12 May 2008 21:15 |
There used to be a Dyno centre, ironically behind the Motability place between Takely and Stansted which is is a Dynojet centre
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
12 May 2008 21:26 |
Is a dyno centre all I need as I think Seastar Superbikes down the road has one of those? Guess it would be a good idea to have it checked out as the previous owner had a power comander and race can fitted ( not on the bike when I bought it ) so it may still have that set up. Having said that the bike has run fine up until this problem.
Can a Dyno run help even on standard bikes with no mods?
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
12 May 2008 21:48 |
The power commander tune/map resides in the PCiii - it does not alter the base map on the ECU so if the PCiii is removed, so is the tune. Even on a standard bike a dyno run and a PCiii set-up will improve throttle response and possibly power as most bikes have a dip in the midrange to help them pass noise and emission regs.
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
12 May 2008 23:08 |
I've just upgraded my membership and spotted something on the Triumph maintainance video in the knowledge base. When Mr Mechanic removes the tank he has to remove a black vacum connection pipe from the pressure regulator.
I've had a look at my tank and there is no pipe coming off the regulator which I'm assuming is the thing that looks like a small metal drum with a metal pipe next to the fuel hoses and power connection.
Sorry to sound like a numpty but could this be the cause of the problem? I've searched for a stray hose end but can't find anything hanging around.
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
13 May 2008 01:42 |
Later bikes don't have it, mine doesn't don't panic
concentrate on draining Tank/ re fitting plugs.......that was ALL that was causing my RS to be loopy ......
I also bunged some vaseline jelly on the outside rings> head sparkplug leads..to help stop water ingress in there.....
Afterwards Bike ran through over 1400 miles wet weather ( NY > Chicago and back)/ severe thunderstorms, in two days...never missed a beat!!!
Sat outside in the storms all night, fired first time next am................!!!!
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
13 May 2008 01:46 |
You will soon realise that Triumph just can't make good quality rubber products on ANY of there machines!!!! from the Tank filler gasket to the smallest relay holder, all seem to be crap quality........
IE: Check any and all rubber on Bike........esp the relay holders.....they rot faster than a stinky old fish!!!!
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,755
Premier Member
Enthusiast
13 May 2008 08:46 |
any place with a CO metere and TuneBoy or the triumph tool can reset CO values. You can even do it without a CO metr if you are very careful but it is hit and miss that way.
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Sog
east yorkshire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
13 May 2008 09:14 |
By the sound of things I might have spoke to soon 
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
13 May 2008 11:10 |
Stu.....the pressure regulator tube just loops back into the airbox. If you look carefull there should be a correct diameter tube hanging in there somewhere. There should be a larger diameter drain at the back of the airbox and a smaller diameter tube for your pressure regulator.
Boycie reckons that some people have had this missing with no ill effects but I suspect that if you look carefully you'll find the other end of the tube.
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
14 May 2008 09:00 |
Ok, update for anyone interested....Firstly I've realised that I am not a motorcycle mechanic as I think I have the patience of a toddler! Thought I'd go for the quick option and drain the tank, sounds like a quick fix me thinks...
Got the tank off fine and emptied it, getting it back on proved more problematic. Whilst jiggling it back into place I managed to chip the paint on the front lip of the tank, the one thing I didn't want to do! You can't see it cause it sits against the yoke but you know it's there don't you?
Also found two electrical connectors under where the tank sits that I didn't disconnect during removal. They don't fit one another and I can't see what they could have come off so I assume that they were sitting in there loose already...I hope!
Anyway, tank on...fuel in...up the road...still stuttering. Time for the proffesionals I think cause if I try working on it again I'll probably set to it with a hammer and I don't want to screw up a good bike with my lack of expertise.
Oh monkey, there wasn't a tube linking the tank with the airbox so I guess mine was one of those that doesn't have it.
Be interesting to see what the garage comes up with...
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OldNick
Essex,
United Kingdom
Posts: 170
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
14 May 2008 09:35 |
If you want to use a mechanic with a Tuneboy who's not a Triumph dealer, try Simon Watson at Race Engineering in Bishop's Stortford (I think this is who you might have been referring to in an earlier post). Had my CO levels reset by him earlier in the year and made a big difference to low speed/rev running. Details copied from their website below
Race Engineering
Unit 11 The Links Business Centre
Raynham Road
Bishops Stortford
Hertfordshire
CM23 5NZ
2 Mins Junction 8 M11
Tel: 01279 755544
Fax: 01371 873438
Mobile: 07850 108 459
Email: info@raceengineering.info
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
14 May 2008 10:25 |
Cheers Nick, got it booked in for next week at Norfolk Triumph as it needs an MOT and 30k service anyway, thought a Triumph service stamp might look good when I come to sell it.
I'll contact Simon if they don't sort out the fuelling issue though as the dealer are giving me lots of hmms and head scrathing on that one.
Being a main dealer it should be something that they can sort hopefully.
Thanks again.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
14 May 2008 10:41 |
Quote:
thought a Triumph service stamp might look good when I come to sell it. |
Are you sure
I have no idea where my service book is apart from which it hasn't been to a dealer since the warranty expired. They say you lose 10-15% for lack of service history in which case I'm quids in. Why someone would want to pay a dealer to remove bodywork, change fluids, replace easy service items like plugs, filters and pads is beyond me.
I may get 10-15% less (if I sold it which I don't ever intend to) but I've saved that many times over.
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
14 May 2008 12:10 |
I hear what you're saying and all credit to you. I bought the bike happily with 24k and little official dealer service because I knew that the previous owner was a good mechanic and serviced it better than a dealer would.
This is my second bike and apart from last night I have no experience working on them, I know the only way to gain it is to do it but I'm not that confident.
I'm off to Italy on it in June so don't want to f**k it up with my lack of patience, knowledge and mechanical ability.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for saving a few quid but I don't want to make a mistake and end up having issues in Europe so thought I'd leave it to those who know what they're up to.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
14 May 2008 12:31 |
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
14 May 2008 19:43 |
You drained the Tank........
and didn't take out the plugs while you were 1/2 way there??
Chances are the plug body's are corroded ( yes, on these Bikes, water can "sit" in the plug wells, esp on #3 plug, nearest side stand, and really play havoc with the running.....)
Whilst you are in there , throw a K & N ( <Insert own brand favourite) in the Airbox) get a new set of plugs in, a decent silencer, and, with a good TuneBoy tune you COULD have 10 BHP more................
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
14 May 2008 20:33 |
Lost my nerve Frank...I have a vision of totally screwing something up and not being able to get it sorted...result...stranded bike in bits!
The previous owner had a K & N fitted, race can and power comander, could the two female connections I found have been for the comander? The filter is still there as I had a look.
I actually got to a stage where I had all the screws and pipes off the airbox but lost my bottle when I thought about taking it off. If I'm honest I'm not worried about getting things off it's getting em back on. Pathetic I know, such fear from a grown man!
Is the airbox easy to remove and replace?
Sorry if this thread is turning into 'war and peace'
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
15 May 2008 01:44 |
Airbox is very easy on the RS, plugs are too IF you use the toolkit supplied (thin) plug spanner.......plugs live DEEP in the heads, and the wall diameter is narrow, larger plug spanners can "bottom out" on the walls BEFORE you get the plugs seated properly.......
Extra connectors MAY be a spare coil/ht lead
I THINK most of the Triples use the "redundant" 4 cylinder wiring loom
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
16 May 2008 21:28 |
Got my bottle back.....stripped it down again, tore one of the fuel connecter o-rings, never mind. Removed the airbox which has got a bit of oil in it so I guess I'll just mop that up.
Removed the spark plug covers and the channels had quite a bit of water in and as suggested by Frank the plug bodies are starting to corrode. The tips look ok but I'll swap em anyway.
Last bit of advice please. Other than wiping the channels out with rag is there anything I should be doing to dry them out. Also I've never bought a set of plugs myself, do I need to adjust the gap or do they come pre-set?
Gonna put it back together tomorrow and be keeping my fingers crossed that it's sorted. Cheers guys.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
16 May 2008 21:59 |
They come pre-gapped but best to check anyhow. Double check but I think it's 0.8 - 0.9mm from memory.
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Frank Jones
NY,
USA
Posts: 2,206
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
17 May 2008 03:04 |
I tried to "seal" the rubber "o ring" of the plug cap with plenty of silicone/ vaseline, put 'em back, been fine ever since.
I think most of the damage occurs if /when you wash her, and leave her outside, on the sidestand, to dry off.........
Now, no matter what, I try to wash> dry> run for at least 10 minutes to hopefully boil off any excess water that found it's way into the plug wells....
Remember, be REAL CAREFUL re tightening the new plugs........you have to give 'em 1/2 a turn more to seat the new crush washer, make sure they are tight, but DON'T over do it!!!!
Good luck......Honestly, since I did all the above, incl draining the Tank, mine has run through 750 mile thunderstorms, lives outside ( under a cover) and has not missed a beat!!!
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
17 May 2008 14:08 |
Fitted new standard plugs and got it back together and it seems to be running great, still a tiny bit lumpy in first but maybe thats just the bike.
The engine management light doesn't go out though, anyone got an idea why that might be staying lit?
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red baron
n\w london,
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,669
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
17 May 2008 14:28 |
run through the heat cycle 3 times
this should reset it, if it doesn't then somethings not connected properly
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
17 May 2008 16:01 |
Sorry Red Baron can you explain the heat cycle for me mate? Everything seems to be connected correctly although the first time I started it up I had forgotton to connect the low fuel level indicator back together.
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red baron
n\w london,
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,669
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
17 May 2008 19:02 |
start the bike, let it heat up so the fan comes on, let it cool down
repeat three times
fourth time hopefully the light wil have gone off
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Stu Clarke
Norwich,
United Kingdom
Posts: 39
Premier Member
Sprint RS (02-05)
19 May 2008 13:40 |
Sorted, running great on the new DRY plugs and no more warning light. Thanks to everyone who's helped me with this one, much appreciated.
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