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Andy Williams
Llandudno,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8
Daytona T595 (97-98)
09 May 2008 21:39 |
Hi, A couple of questions about my '97 T595.
I just found out that the back tyre is not the correct size for the bike. It is a 180/55-17 and should be a 190/50-17.
Is it usual to change from the standard size; if so, why?
The tyre fitted is a Metzler Roadtec Z6, and is nearly worn out (at least I think so; It's hard to be sure when there's no tread in the middle). When I bought the bike a few months ago, the owner gave me a "spare" apparently unused tyre, a Michelin Macadam 90X. Is this a good deal, or should I bin it and go buy some other tyre? Any opinions welcome.
Cheers
Andy
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
09 May 2008 23:37 |
People put 180's on to try and speed-up the steering. It's totally unnecessary IMHO as you can achieve the same by raising the rear or droping the yokes a few mm. I'm not sure about the aspect ratio but 190 is definitely the OE size.
As for your spare tyre....never mix tyres. Different manufacturers and even different types of tyre from the same manufacturer have different carcass construction and you'll end-up with something that will feel wrong and potentially handle poorly.
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My name is earl
llandrindod wells,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,874
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
10 May 2008 10:35 |
if you want the best of both worlds fit a 190/55/17, i always change mine as a pair if you not sticking with the same brand as at least then they are a matched set, the new michelins 2ct seem to have good reveiws, it all down to what/how you ride and your budget.
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,755
Premier Member
Enthusiast
10 May 2008 11:33 |
oi, thats my line...give it back.
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Anthony Apperley
Stirling,
United Kingdom
Posts: 109
Sprint ST (05->)
10 May 2008 20:19 |
I had a dealer put on a 180 instead of a 190 section (On a SP1)and when I contacted the tyre manufacturer for advice they told me that under heavy cornering I could run out tyre as the contact patch would be on the limit at the edge of the tyre.....
Just a thought..
Anthony
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
10 May 2008 22:47 |
'tis true.....you effectively fall of the edge of the tyre i.e off the shoulder.
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Andy Williams
Llandudno,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 May 2008 00:17 |
Well, thanks for all the comments.
The first thing is that I'll take the advice and NOT use the Michelin tyre. It looks virtually unused, so I'm sure I can sell it to someone (maybe on Ebay).
I've had the wrong size Metzler on since I bought the bike last year and have no complaints about the handling or grip - wet or dry, so I'm not sure whether to stay with the 180/55 or go back to the factory 190/50.
I need to decide by Monday; the inner edge of the tread pattern is below the 1mm minimum now!
Cheers
Andy
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My name is earl
llandrindod wells,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,874
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 May 2008 09:08 |
x man sorry if i stole ur thunder 
andy lots of offers with m&p thats where i got mine from, or busters.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
11 May 2008 09:32 |
I'd recommend the Pilot Road 2, dual compound. I've switched from Bridgestones and am happy so far.
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Manny Fagnet
Poland,sorry Reading,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,486
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 May 2008 10:50 |
BIKE mag has a good sports touring tyre feature this month, with 8 tyres tested...And the winner was....Dunlop RoadSmart 3CT and Pirelli Diablo Strada. (joint first).
I'm not a fan of Dunlops in the wet so i'd look at the Pirelli's...
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Sam KS
Queensland,
Australia
Posts: 283
Daytona 955i (99-01)
11 May 2008 10:58 |
what kind of riding do you do? I used to like Avon Azaros on my ZZR1100 and thinking of using the same on the daytona. but i do ride like a big handbag and also to a bit of touring, normally 2 up. I'v had prellies on the ZZR and it handled and griped fine but once 2/3 worn it'd handle like a 1923 harley, with bad tires and no servicing.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
11 May 2008 11:00 |
[edited]:
Time for me to leave
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X-Man
Chesterfield/Derbys,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8,755
Premier Member
Enthusiast
11 May 2008 11:45 |
Manny, we just changed to Dunlop wets on Alex's race bike and he says they are awesome even compared to the Bridgestones which are supposedly the best. If this has trickled down to the road tyres then they may be worth a second look..still prefer Pirelli's myself but I think its time to try some more makes; having said that I understand the Pirelli Rosso's are awesome as well. Ask PC to ask his son.
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Terry Colley
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 110
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
11 May 2008 13:13 |
Interesting reading some of the comments in this thread.
Here's my 2 cents worth.
The advice about NEVER mixing tyres (the advising posters bold/capitalised emphasis) is incorrect. It really only applies if you don't know anything about the tyres you're using and the likely outcome. I, and many others, often mix brands and tyre compounds. Sometimes its done to achieve a certain handling/grip/durability combination, e.g. I'd take a lowside over a highside any day so prefer more rear end grip, sometimes it's just plain old economics. If offered a good deal on a Pilot Road 2 rear and an equivalent Bridgestone front why wouldn't you? I'm currently running a Michelin/Pirelli sport/touring combo on my street S3 and a Michelin/Metzeler combo on my track hack.
The Metzeler sportec fronts were a real good price so I snapped a couple.
As for the Michelin Macadam 90X if you don't want it throw it my way and I'll happily take it off your hands. Its a touring tyre well suited to ST1100/FJR1300 type bikes although equally able to perform on Bandits/Hornets etc. Its durable (high kms) and strong (high luggage/pillion loads don't phase it). Its not the best in the wet but its predictability means you can find its limit without landing on your arse. Of more concern is the age of the tyre. If its old it will have lost some flexibility/hardened so will take some scrubbing in but it'll happily run back and forth across the Nullarbor or up and down the UK motorways.
Now to the correct size tyre. I'm not going to say NEVER use a different size tyre but be aware that motorcycle tyres have a profile that is easily changed by mismatched rim width. If your bike is specified with a rear 190/50x17 tyre it'll have a 6" rim. If it's specified 180/55x17 it'll have a 5.5" rim. 170's go on 5", 160's on 4.5" etc etc. The posters who advised you stick with the stock size were giving you good advice. Again though if you know tyres or want to know about them try it. But ride knowing that you're learning before dragging knees.
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Andy Williams
Llandudno,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8
Daytona T595 (97-98)
11 May 2008 13:30 |
Thanks for the interesting comments Terry.
I think I'va already decided that I don't have enough knowledge to start choosing tyremix and size for myself. The front is a Metzler Roadtec Z6 and still has lots of miles on it, so I'm going for the same on the rear. As to the size, I shall go back to the stock 190/50.
I'd be happy to sell you the Michelin, but shipping it to Oz might mean it's not much of a bargain....
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Geordie OilSlick
Yorth Nork Shire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,217
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
12 May 2008 00:41 |
I got wrong size on mine too mate I got a 200/50
Might not handle like a race bike - but who's racing?
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Steve Phillips RaceComp
Adelaide,
Australia
Posts: 594
Premier Member
Speed Triple (05->)
12 May 2008 05:18 |
Dave, you need help!!!!
Andy, let us know how crap it feels after you fit a 190/50 back on your bike.
No way will you go off the edge of a 180 rear!!! I have had everything grinding including the ignition cover and it was just fine, you would never get that low on the road.
A 180 rear is the best fix for a standard front-end triple.
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Steve Phillips RaceComp
Adelaide,
Australia
Posts: 594
Premier Member
Speed Triple (05->)
12 May 2008 05:18 |
Dave, you need help!!!!
Andy, let us know how crap it feels after you fit a 190/50 back on your bike.
No way will you go off the edge of a 180 rear!!! I have had everything grinding including the ignition cover and it was just fine, you would never get that low on the road.
A 180 rear is the best fix for a standard front-end triple.
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Geordie OilSlick
Yorth Nork Shire,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,217
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
12 May 2008 08:47 |
[edited]:
I know mate.
I can't help it
Hows the brake discs selling?
Need any new designs yet fella?
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
12 May 2008 09:24 |
[edited]:
I completely disagree with Terry's statements. Unless you are an expert you really are opening a can of worms by mixing tyres.
By way of example, a company tried to launch a brand of remoulded tyre in the UK but they failed horribly as the front could be, say a Bridgestone touring carcass and the rear a Dunlop sport carcass. Without knowing this (so it was a "blind" test") users found their bikes handled like shit and were unpredictable and the bike mags tried them and hated them........and all of this before the carcass mix-up fiasco came to light. The only time I would consider it would have been to, say, keep an 010 on the front and an 020 on the rear.
As for "taking a lowside over a highside", most accidents are lowsides regardless.......count the people you know who have lowsided compared to highsided whether on road or track. Bikes tend to run a front end bias so there is more weight/grip on the front so the first to lose grip is the rear. Highsides are generally connected to throttle control and application not tyres.
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Manny Fagnet
Poland,sorry Reading,
United Kingdom
Posts: 1,486
Premier Member
Daytona T595 (97-98)
12 May 2008 10:38 |
[edited]:
From Xman,
"Manny, we just changed to Dunlop wets on Alex's race bike and he says they are awesome even compared to the Bridgestones which are supposedly the best."
You're probably right as tyre technology seems to move so fast..I think my 'Dunlop phobia' probably comes from a dodgy pair of D207's i had a few years ago which would slide without warning in the wet and then a pair of 208's which dumped me on my arse at a damp Silverstone track day----Obviously the tyre's were totally to blame and nothing to do whatsover with my my lack of ability...!
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
12 May 2008 10:53 |
[edited]:
Actually, let me modify my earlier comments which are a bit polarised.......how about "never mix tyres unless it is an informed choice and you know what you are doing".......probably a more realistic view as lots of people used to mix 010s with 020sand the like although these days with dual compount tyres even that increasingly unnecessary. I still wouldn't mix manufacturers though.
How about that Terry?
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Strumpet
Chippenham UK,
United Kingdom
Posts: 249
Enthusiast
12 May 2008 13:33 |
If you want to stick with the 180/55 and aren't going racing, try Bridgestone BT021... they recommend the 180/55 BT021 on the 955i rear.
Double checked it with them and the dealer before fitting them.
The results are great, far better steering than with the BT010 pair with a 190/50 rear it came with, and certainly more grip than I'll ever use on the road.
I won't go back to a 190.
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Terry Colley
Sydney,
Australia
Posts: 110
Speed Triple 955i (02-04)
12 May 2008 14:34 |
Red, your comments to Andy, who seems unsure and was only seeking advice, were, as you say "a bit polarised". Might have been better counsel to have said something like "if you're not sure, and until you are, best stay with matched pairs". Even that advice has to be considered in the light of the not untypical 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio of rear to front tyre wear rates many street riders experience even with matched pairs. The advice to 'never' mix tyres would require you to replace ¨ö or ¨÷ worn fronts simply because you couldn't get an equivalent matching rear.
Your remoulded tyre example is probably a bit of a furphy but remember I'm not advocating mismatched tyres per se, just pointing out many riders can mix 'n match from within and between different manufacturers. This thread was interesting enough to prompt me to call some friends and ask their opinions. None of them felt any need to have manufacturers matched pairs. Of topical note though was the emerging popularity and high regard for the Michelin Pilot 2, the current dual compound unit. 3 of them had recently fitted them to the rear (obviously) and left whatever they happened to have fitted on the front alone.
And then theres l'il Dave. He runs rings around me on the street and the track. He has an early model Fireblade, still with the original 16" front wheel. His choice of fronts is virtually non-existent but he'll run whatever rear he chooses without even a thought as to if it was ever officially matched to his front.
Now to change the thread a little. It's to do with lowsides and highsides and the word 'never'. During my phone around one of my mates expressed the view that "you'll never lose the front with the power on". I think I've heard this somewhere before and I'm trying to form an opinion of my own without putting it to the test. What do youse all think?
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
12 May 2008 16:01 |
California Superbike School recomment gentle application of the throttle from the moment you turn in. This prevents the front loading-up and potentially washing out. The theory is that with a front end bias you are more likely to lose the rear which a decent rider can control or save : despite the pub bullshit, few can save a washed-out front end.
From my experience and knowledge a highside has little do do with the ratio of front to rear grip (i.e tyre choices) it's caused by a rear end slide that suddeny grips due to chopping the throttle or simply because it suddenly hooks-up.
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Idiot
Hurt, tired, angry.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 20,946
Premier Member
Speed Triple T509 (97-98)
12 May 2008 22:40 |
Oh god. It's a tyre thread.
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
13 May 2008 00:17 |
Yes- it started out as an innocuous correct fitment question and look where it's ended-up. Shocking!
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Andy Williams
Llandudno,
United Kingdom
Posts: 8
Daytona T595 (97-98)
13 May 2008 08:12 |
Not my fault - Honest!
I asked the questions to "replace ignorance with knowledge".
I had no idea tyres could stir up such strong emotions!
Cheers
Andy
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Red Monkey, aka Le Singe Rouge
Swinging in a tyre,
United Kingdom
Posts: 15,280
Premier Member
Daytona 955i (99-01)
13 May 2008 11:12 |
They always do because there's a lot of pub bullshit and misinformation.
Hope you got the answer you were looking for which in essence is
a) 190
2) stick with paired tyres unless you made an informed decision not to.
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Idiot
Hurt, tired, angry.,
United Kingdom
Posts: 20,946
Premier Member
Speed Triple T509 (97-98)
13 May 2008 23:10 |
I'm keeping my extensive experience of working selling tyres for a twat under my hat. People never used to listen to advice anyway, even the ones who asked for it.
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Sam KS
Queensland,
Australia
Posts: 283
Daytona 955i (99-01)
14 May 2008 06:40 |
WOW, Red monkey seems to have simmed it up with out prattling on like me.
and Ade yep i also sold tyres but i never rode as well as any one who came in. it's amazing how many top rideres there are who dicide not to challange the WSB or Moto GP title. but one funny thing i found was when people came to getting tyres changed they seem to have always just come back from touring and THATS why the sides where like new???
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